Do you know what the "socialized medicine" proposal was? It was Medicare. So, I wonder if the GOP is going to be true to Reagan's principles and propose abolishing Medicare...
Olin Moyles Ghost
JoinedPosts by Olin Moyles Ghost
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Interesting picture from the early 1960's - Socialized Medicine in the USA
by lepermessiah inyou might have seen this before, but i was reading up on reagan this weekend........ i always admired him as a leader - i think he was the last great president in the usa.....imo.. .
ronald reagan speaks against socialized medicine!.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/file:reagan-lpcover.jpg.
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2010 DC" Remain in Gods Love"...Most Unloving Yet??
by JWFreak inthe talk outlines for the summers conventions are only being printed over the next 2 weeks or so.. the finished outlines were ready in the middle of december 2009, however sources that i trust tell me that at least 5 of the talks were returned for last minute rewriting which is highly unusual.
this has held up the printing until now, a delay of over a month.
this is a fact!!.
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Olin Moyles Ghost
Yadda, that's my point. It's not going to be anything new and groundbreaking. It will be the same old stuff I heard when I was growing up.
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Faders are indeed a very large doormat
by moshe insorry, to be so blunt- for a whole day i have watched people here patting themselves on the back- we're a large army, oohh, look out wt, we might do something, well not today or tomorrow, but someday!
maybe, i have to just accept that a lot of jw's who are exiting the kh by the back door will never find a backbone to stand up to mummy and elder daddy.. jw's have a learned ability to see themselves in a better light than everyone else sees them.
ask a jw, if they are a charitable religion and they would likely all say they are, but when pressed to name a charity they will be unable to do so.
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Olin Moyles Ghost
Amen Undercover. Unfortunately many ex-JWs have the same judgmental, black-or-white thinking that JWs have. Fact of the matter is that it's just not that simple.
Some think that unless you're picketing out in front of District Conventions, you're "selling out" or being a coward. That's just moronic. For one thing, those idiots that picket conventions do more harm than good, in my opinion. They simply reinforce the JWs' persecution complex.
In my limited experience, simply walking away and living a quiet, fulfilling life makes a bigger impression on those still in. It rocks their world. They've been taught that those who stop believing become either (1) wild-eyed, holy-rolling, assembly-picketing apostates; (2) drug-using, wife-swapping, deadbeat hedonists; or (3) "prodigal sons/daughters" who realize the error of their ways and come back to the K. Hall.
So, when you simply live a good life and don't fit their cookie-cutter idea of an ex-JW, it causes cognitive dissonance. Sometimes it even causes them to ask questions. This is a good thing.
And, for the record, plenty of us "faders" have made it abundantly clear to our JW loved ones that we do not believe it anymore. But some of us don't feel the need to be obnoxious about it. In fact, some of us like the idea of simply moving on with our lives. As some have put it, one day I'd like to be an ex-ex-JW.
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Why is it called "Full time service"?
by no lies please ini've often wondered this during the twenty something years that i pioneered.
but it doesn't add up, literally.
seventy hours a month is only about 17.5 hours a week.
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Olin Moyles Ghost
I always thought the title "full-time service" for pioneers was silly. Now Bethelites, traveling overseers, missionaries--sure, they're "full time." But spending 70 or 90 hours per month is not full time by anyone's standards.
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Faders are indeed a large army...
by undercover in...and i think it's starting to show.. i started a thread the other day about being hounded after several years of having successfully(?
) faded.
i've been taken aback a bit the recent developments but i'm making a new strategy...one that depends more on sticking to my guns and laying the cards on the table.
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Olin Moyles Ghost
Well put, Undercover. Lots of faders, inactive, irregular, DF'd, and "dead weight." By "dead weight" I mean those who make 50-80% of the meetings, go out in service occasionally, don't reach out, and barely contribute financially (if at all). They're just taking up seats at the KH. Often, they're 2nd/3rd generation JWs. Not all of these folks have figured out the scam yet, but some have...and others are getting there.
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Why the Society needs to have an interpretation for every prophecy
by Olin Moyles Ghost inthe "prophetic" books of the bible contain lots of wild imagery and vague predictions.
for example, daniel describes various periods of 1260, 1290, 1335, and 2300 days.
revelation contains discussions of a variety of wild beasts, trumpet blasts, etc.
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Olin Moyles Ghost
The "prophetic" books of the Bible contain lots of wild imagery and vague predictions. For example, Daniel describes various periods of 1260, 1290, 1335, and 2300 days. Revelation contains discussions of a variety of wild beasts, trumpet blasts, etc. While the meaning of these items are a source of vigorous debate among Christians, the WT Society has put forth official positions which, of course, must be accepted by JWs.
Of course, a dirty little secret is that most JWs have no idea what the Society's interpretations of the 1260, 1290, 1335, and 2300 days are. They would probably be surprised to know that:
- The 1260 days of Daniel 12:7 represent 1914-1918
- The 1290 days of Daniel 12:11 represent 1918-1921
- The 1335 days of Daniel 12:12 represent 1922-1926
- The 2300 days of Daniel 8:14 represent 1938-1944
When you read the explanation in the Society's Daniel book, the explanations are laughable--especially the 2300 days (hint: it involves some WT articles and a change to the Society's corporate charter). And then there's the embarrassing doctrine about the 7 trumpet blasts of Revelation being 7 district conventions in the 1920s. As a believing JW, I often wondered: why does the Society feel the need to come up with an explanation for everything? Why can't they simply say they're not sure?
I'm sure there's not one single answer to this question. For example, arrogance no doubt plays a part, as does inertia--once a doctrine has been taught for decades, there is some reluctance to change it unless a compelling need arises. But I expect there are some folks in the GB/Writing Dept. who are not convinced by these interpretations, and would perhaps prefer a more reasonable "we're not sure" position.
I think the main reason is the Society's need to project "unity" of worship. If the Society simply said "we're not sure what the 2300 days of Daniel and the 7 trumpet blasts of Revelation represent," it would open the door for Witnesses to speculate, which would undermine the perception of unity. We've seen this already with regard to the identity of the King of the North (here, the WTS was forced to back off its interpretation because of changing world events in the 1990s and 2000s).
This unity/uniformity of belief is one of the factors that the Society uses to "prove" that JWs are the true religion. How many times have you heard Witnesses brag that they can go to a KH in any city in the world and the same thing is being taught. This is because the Society has an answer for practically everything--including the wacky prophecies of Daniel and Revelation. As long as there's something "in print" about a matter, every JW is required to accept it or else be shunned.
That's my theory, anyway.
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Understanding JW Recruiting Concepts Can Help Others To Leave
by AllTimeJeff inunderstanding jw recruiting concepts can help others to leave.
when i first left jehovah's witnesses (jw's), i was somewhat amused at the sheer amount of anti jw websites out there.
while websites like freeminds.org and jwfacts.com are great, (non hysterical sites that stress fact and presentation over emotional responses), there are at least 5 times as many other sites that act as if you should treat a jw at your door like you would a spreader of the ebola virus.. i don't disagree with the fact that jw's are somewhat dangerous and usually go for the low hanging fruit.
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Olin Moyles Ghost
Great post, Jeff. I couldn't agree more. All the craziness about Satanism, Freemasonry, subliminal art, etc. does more harm than good in my opinion.
And I agree that the personal experiences can be a great benefit. I can say that from personal experience. I happened upon this site over a year before I joined. I would never have considered visiting an "apostate" site, and I felt a bit guilty for being here. If I would have registered and posted at that time, I would have been a pro-JW apologist.
But I read a few of the personal experiences, and they had the "ring of truth." If you've been in the org long enough, you're going to be mistreated by those in charge. I enjoyed reading others' accounts of such run-ins, and noted how there were similarities to mine.
Now, when I first visited the board, I was careful not to read any doctrinal threads. I rationalized that it was ok to read personal experiences, but I didn't want to read about "apostate" doctrinal ideas.
So, the moral of this story is to keep the experiences coming! I'm sure there are plenty of lurkers out there just like me who have been put through the wringer by men in power and would enjoy reading your experiences.
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2010 DC" Remain in Gods Love"...Most Unloving Yet??
by JWFreak inthe talk outlines for the summers conventions are only being printed over the next 2 weeks or so.. the finished outlines were ready in the middle of december 2009, however sources that i trust tell me that at least 5 of the talks were returned for last minute rewriting which is highly unusual.
this has held up the printing until now, a delay of over a month.
this is a fact!!.
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Olin Moyles Ghost
Thanks for the tip, JWF. I could see the WT Society doing one or more of the following:
- Cracking down on "association." For example, emphasizing the need to curtail association with non-JW relatives, neighbors, school/work colleagues, and reinforcing the shunning of DF'd family members.
- Perhaps more forceful counsel regarding higher education. Despite the crackdown on college over the past few years, I've noticed plenty of JWs in "good standing" allowing their children to attend college. Perhaps the WTS feels that some strong reminders are in order.
- I would not be surprised if the Convention includes a crackdown on the Internet--especially Facebook and other social networking sites. Lots of JWs use these sites to connect with friends--including "worldly" people, DF'd people, and those of the opposite sex to whom they're not married. Some on here have noted that circuit overseers have mentioned Facebook in their "needs of the circuit" talks. That could foreshadow what we'll see at this summer's conventions.
- No doubt there will be some counsel regarding "immorality." As always, there's lots of teenage sex, drunkenness, adultery, and divorces in the Kingdom Halls. Every now and then, the WTS needs to put the fear of God into the flock. District Conventions are a good time for that.
- Dress and grooming. When I was growing up in the organization, Witnesses dressed like NERDS. Now, I can't pick most Witnesses out of a crowd. You'd be surprised (or maybe you wouldn't) at the number of 20-something JWs with tattoos. And I'm talking about JWs in "good standing," too.
- Entertainment. Lots of JWs have let their standards slip in this respect. Sure, there are some who still toe the line, but I know lots of JWs (including those with "privileges") who don't think twice about watching R-rated movies, attending rock concerts, and going to dance clubs. Every few years, the Society cracks down entertainment. I think they're due for another.
All in all, I expect more of the same. None of my ideas listed above are new. The Society isn't going to "ban the Internet" or release some kind of "Theocratic firewall" software. Rather, they'll pick out some topics, such as the ones mentioned above, and deliver some "pointed counsel" on those points. The faithful JWs who aren't asleep will view this as "food at the proper time" and will savor the opportunity to feel superior to their fellow brothers and sisters who have the temerity to maintain a Facebook page. Ah, the joys of the spiritual paradise!
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a BIG shoutout to jwfacts
by poopsiecakes inim sure this has been mentioned many times on this site but i wanted to express my personal feelings of gratitude to paul at jwfacts.com.
paul, your site changed my life.
even though i discovered it when i was already disfellowshipped and really didnt have the intention of going back, i was still a fierce jw apologist.
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Olin Moyles Ghost
Allow me to add my voice in support of jwfacts. By keeping a measured tone and focusing on quotes from WT literature, jwfacts is one of the most useful sites out there. Thanks for putting it together and keeping it up!
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Did you get hit with the "There is nothing better out there" argument?
by lepermessiah ini wish i had a dollar for everytime i heard that lately.. "your concerns are very valid, but there is nothing else out there".
"well, its not perfect - but i'm telling you, there is nothing else out there".
"yes, the organization is full of problems, but you have to understand - there is nothing else out there".
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Olin Moyles Ghost
And those who say "even if it's not the truth, it's the best way to live" have obviously never had to shun a family member or close friend.
When folks say that, I can agree with them to a point. My personal experience is that adhering to conservative "Christian" values such as honesty, hard work, faithfulness to your marriage mate, avoiding drunkenness and drug abuse, etc., is the best way to live. But there are lots of folks who live by that same moral code--many of whom belong to other religions or are even--gasp--not religious at all!
So I have no quarrel with the "moral" standards that the Witnesses and other fundamentalist groups profess. My issue is with the baggage that goes along with them--the shunning of family and loved ones, the wasting of years of your life in mindless indoctrination and literature distribution sessions, the foregoing of opportunities because The End is "right around the corner," etc.